Branding Banter
Branding Banter

Season 2, Episode 9 · 1 year ago

S2 EP9 - Petbarn

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

🎙 It’s time for some more banter!

In this episode, we’re putting a leash on our banter and throwing it a chew toy to spotlight Aussie pet care brand, Petbarn.

Petbarn in the last 2 decades has grown into a big leader and go-to brand in Australia for pet care. As they have an end-to-end service and product offering that completes the circle of what ‘care’ really means to their customers and their pets.

So in this episode we look under the hood of Petbarn to identify how it positions itself, how it communicates with key messaging, how it communicates visually in its identity and what brand experience it offers its intended audience and consumers.

Woof woof…meow!

🎙 Where to find more about Delphie & Frank

Branding Banter on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brandingbanter/

Delphie Website: https://www.seecreative.com.au/

Delphie Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seecreativestudio/

Frank Website: https://www.gdayfrank.com/

Frank Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gdayfrank/

Hey, frank. Good, a healthy time to start the banter. Yeah, let's go branding banter. Good and welcome to branding banter, the podcast that shines a spotlight on Australian businesses for business owners, brand consultants and designers, so that we can identify how a brand helps a business connect with their consumers, while of course, having a bit of a back and forth between each other, a banter, as we call it, about a featured Ozzie brand each week. I'm your hostdealthy, and this is my co host, frank, and before we'd begin, we just like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land in which we're both recording the podcast on today. I'm on the beautiful coast or why Jack Country and frank is on the mountainous Gandangara country. We pay our respects to the elders, past, present and emerging as co hosts a branding banter, we individually run our own branding consultancies from two different sides of Australia. So frank runs get a franc from the blue mountains west of Sydney, while I run sea creative from Perth in Western Australia. Hello, welcome, welcome, welcome. I it is episode nine and I'm going to I'm going to hold the press here because I usually leave this to the end of the episode. If you're listening, because I know seventy five percent of our listeners are using apple podcasts, if you can stop right now, pause right there. There's the button right there. Go down to where it says review, tap on five stars if you like it, one star if you really don't like it. But I'm not sure why you still here and leave a nice review if there was something that caught your attention about this podcast that you kept you listening and sticking around for these episodes, because we appreciate all of you. There's been a thousand lessons of this season two, which we are just tearing about. It's been relatively it's pretty low to other podcasts out there. It's not a competition. No, except thousand people who were bothered to listen. Yes, yes, yes, several people, that one person a thousand times. You know, just my mom. Yeah, five hundred apiece mom. Thanks. I don't even know if I'm to know how to play a podcast has listened, but I think she's. She did say to me the other day she's like, I'm sorry, I haven't kept up, so it's obviously not her. They listening. Hello, Delis Mom. Okay, we're episode nine today, another episode here, and we're going to preface this, apart from the Review Shenanigans, by saying this is our second last episode of season two. We're coming to the close here. We've got one more to go next week and then we're out of here for another wall season. Well, until the end. Yeah, next season, till next season, for the next year. I think, and we talked about this briefly when we finished up last week, just to each other frank, and I think it's worth while. You know, I we're kind of talking about this sort of podcast fatigue and yes, maybe that keeping yeah, pod fate. See, it's actually good turn. That's weird, but yeah, I think it's a good to kind of flag with listeners maybe who don't do their own podcasts, what that feels like and you, you know, to to kind of get up each week and do the research and, you know, pro like allocate the time and chat and do all these things, like we definitely have been doing it for ourselves, but also we're very intentional with wanting this to be valuable to the people who are listening. So I think it's good to talk about how that that actually can you. After that sort of we were definitely feeling it after the kind of eight episodes, started to feel like okay, we're we're definitely having that fade and want to keep the energy going for those last couple of episodes of this season. So yeah, I think it's just good to let people know that, you know, it's not just it's I guess it's maybe not just easy to kind of do it each week like they does take that kind of mental capacity to come on. Yeah, you know, sure the researchers and say show up consistency. So so we want to keep it fresh and that's why we've sort of we're not going to just push through and keep going. We want to keep it at this sort of tim episodes and then we'll review and, you know, see what we want to do for the next season. So yeah, we really be, as frank said before, really value everyone who has tuned in and listened and we really always open two feedback on what we're chatting about because to be useful and valuable for you as well, and I've always I mean I hope. I made a whole podcast about podcastings. You can always find that called brand my podcast. The big takeaway for me and anyone that wants to do a podcast, if it is for your own brand especially, is that if you treat it like a TV show and how they do seasons and it's a certain amount of episodes, it might be five, it might be ten, it might be twenty. If you keep it at that, it allows ...

...you to really hone in on what you are producing to make it something that's valuable rather than just showing up like you would on instagram every day or something like that. Yeah, you know, it's hard to maintain and for something like this, especially if it's an hour or more chatting and then you have to edit and posed in you to do content around it, all the rest of it. Yeah, yeah, you can get a bit tedious. So this is why we we've been intentional to say we're capping it at ten episodes this season and we're going to finish off with a fun little bang next week. But we'll tell you what we're going to be talking about as a as a final brand at the end. But that leads us right into my favorite time of the week, which is the Ozzybbq, the Ozzie branding band to Quiz Payton, pending, trademark, approved registance? Not Quite. I feel like a sausage. There's this morning. Well, I just had Thai food, so I'm good. I left over time from last night. I haven't even had breakfast with the time different, all that time different. So right, I've had tea and coffee, but anyway, so nice we go. All Right, I'm the quiz master today. Yes, and this is actually interesting, Lee, it's a food related questions to do. Frank. In the S and N S, a brand mascot called the gobble doc promoted. Which Australian Snack Food Brand do you want? Modele choice. Yeah, I've not the gobbled docks. I see. When I did it last night I thought I wonder if frank will know this, because it's not in your fully in your time frame now. Was At eight, baby, yeah, yeah, yeah, so you put went across snack foods. Okay, was it a Smith's crisps twist Hes, or was it se CC's? This is is a as soon as you said Smith, I was like there's a mascot for that. That weird are whatever the hell that thing was so the goobble dog has a legend has it that the Gobbledog's true home is doc the potato planet. According to the GOBBLEDOG's extent, Damn extensive knowledge of all things potato related, not all chips are as fresh and it's crisp as Smith's chips. He went on tons of mad dashes to grab the bag for himself. So he was basically, and you know, an out of space mascot. But it was really interesting because you, mum leave. You've touched on mascots a bit before. I know that even recently we were talking. I think you did a woman the first about it. Yeah, but you did a post on it as well. Mascots. Yeah, it's real. Mascots are an interesting branding tool. Yeah, it's I reckon it's up there with jingles of a really well, maybe useful, but something that is impactful and engaging for audience. been left with either a memory or some kind of catchy thing that they'll sing to themselves. But as so under utilized by so many brands out there, we should totally have more of them. Yeah, between audio branding and other physical kind of branding of different things. Like I know Saint George Bank uses the dinosaur or not the dinosaur? The what is? It's like a floating dragon. Yeah, the Dragon, course, the loose, kind of like the Dorothy, the dragon from the wiggles, but yeah, a little bit different. Yeah, no, no, yeah, so that dragon exactly. That was around for ages. There was like even characters, like there was Louis the fly for more team. Yeah, you know that, heaps of different little Mascotti type things that then got pulled out and have been used, like the Olympics have done it and lots of things like that. But I think brands as a whole, business brands. I guess maybe it's more of a product, something that people would relate to products, but I know, yeah, there's definitely it kind of a think comes in with that also that purs like that face of a brand. So you kind of have to that. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I think definitely we're seeing it in maybe in a similar capacity, but not quite as they, you know, the character Toure MMM way that some of the other brands have done it all that. Yeah, that foot, like the gobble dog. I mean whoever that hellarious come up with it? It's like some sort of freak show bloody, but I mean that goes to show, right, garage that was used like a just emlulation of things put together. We should get the AD s advert of it. I'll have to send it to you so you can put it on because it is quite but if you want to, it is quite funny frank, because it's like, when you look at it, you know it's that real d s television advertisement. But interestingly, you know, I feel like the fact that that, even though you didn't know about it, but I say mis chip creates chips and the Gobble Doc, you actually could create that connections and you didn't even know. Tell you some on that. The value. You know that. That is that distinctiveness that we and why I think we shouldn't be scared to be out there and creative, because...

...they're the things that stick in people's memories. Exactly. Obviously it needs to be related to your brand in some way, but I mean not that the gobble doc was, but they created a story around that. Right, like, especially, especially if you don't want to be the face of your brand or have a face of your brunk up, a human face or that random basses. I do this with a client just recently and there are assess product. I was like, okay, let's make a d character that's kind of like your customer Avatar that buys into it, and it's kind of like what banquest does at the moment with their little man redhead bloke, Yepy, his name is that they call him. Hasn't has an ingrained itself yet? There you go. No, no, it hasn't. He's got it. Hasn't got the redhead man. But even like Yui, the Insurance Company, you know they've got that guy, the ion, Scottish poke, Irish Bay. Yeah, exactly. So there's all these sort of I think, these people that get us to kind of keep remembering that and like the we've got one here for HBFFORTS. They've been using these other clockers caucuses. Very good, I like. So that's over there as well, the Western Australia. Yeah, okay, she looks like a Perth Button. I when we move back we won't be able to talk about birth at all, but we've left berthon now it's on to other things anyway. So I note that was a massive amount of talking about like that's good. It's kind of a bit of a leeway in. Yes, like a segue into the bread that we're going to be talking about, because I do kind of use mascots in in a way. Yes, well, okay, characters at least. Yeah, that's yeah. Yeah, so today we're talking about pet barn, which is it was interesting for me because I don't have a pet, so it was sort of not necessarily something that I'd I mean, I know of the brand, but I hadn't really kind of fully connected yea, to your guys. Don't use them at all. But yeah, so they we're talking at pet barn and also they're kind of is it the parent company? But it's also a part of their service, yeah, which is Green Cross vets. So they've kind of they definitely work in partnership with each other. Their position together. Yes, they're, you know, the they're kind of under the same umbrella. So they're not even they're not seen as really well, they've seen this their separate businesses, but they're together in the same brand. So so there are physical and an ecommerce product business and obviously a service for the vets. Yeah, there's like a it's kind of like a whole myriad of things that I think if we position pet barn as the place that you'd go to find pet care products generally, and then they have kind of a brand architecture that will get into about what else they yeah, and so obviously offer like all pet related product. Yep, food. Are you there exactly? Sorry, we're not even going to edit that out. There was just some dead are thank you. Courtesy to clubhouse. Thank you. I'm notving gonna bother edite. It was established, I think, in one thousand nine hundred and ninety four, the Green Cross brand essentially. But in terms of pet barn it's about twenty years old now. I think by twenty one, twenty two years this year. So there wasn't any research we could find that was a pinpoint at a certain year they had. We alway had is the time from that been around. But yeah, in terms of green cross, who owns it? And it was started by a bloke named Glenn Richards, who you might know if you're an Australian and had watched shark tank Australia on Channel Ten, you're a big shark tank Fan. Well, one of our guests was on showing tank. I first guess on the surest I still refer back to that episode because I was so valuable. Cousins Hannah and Sam, with their boss Coop, actually got a deal out of it. Not With Glenn, though. He didn't pick and back them. But yeah, Glenn is a veterinarian and he started his own vet clinics in Queensland, expanded quite rapidly in the next preceding ten years, I believe, and started acquiring more and more vets and then other pet brands that sold products, one of which was a parent company that owned pet bun, and another one in Western Australia called, I think was the one you tell me about. Yeah, so city farmers, farmers, that's a yes, they bought city farmers. Yeah, so under the same umbrella it was all purchased and bought and really taken to the next level, I guess. Of what those brands are now, being a national brand, pet bun across Australia, the other one more so in Wa, I believe, in Perth specifically. Sure it's in Queens light as well. Completely. Yeah, I was thinking about it when we spoke about it before the episode. was looking all the places. There was like twenty of them in Perth alone, or so like. Well, okay, wow, that's a lot that. Yeah, yeah, no, they it is. That was...

...an interesting thing to see. So they kind of really capturing that, you know, that pet to market, getting right in on top of you know, a bit like, I guess, when we're talking about bummings having not quite a monopoly, but definitely kind of trying to take over a lot of those areas that, you know, do deal with pets and definitely kind of yeah, definitely really will get into that and we picked them. I was one that picked them initially only because I do use them, dud by from them engage with them as a customer, since we have a little cat and she's not little anymore. But anyway, cats are huge, not some messes. Dog are and tiger, yes, I'm going to tiger. But they have a distinctive rebrand that's been done that makes them a brand that relies quite a bit on their visual identity and for a lot of the brands that we've covered so far hasn't relied so much on their visuals as it's been other facets. We've kind of delved into what makes them unique, but for this brand particular, especially if they rebrand, it was only the visual side of things that was really enhanced, yeah, and refreshed in that. But specifically the reason why I caught my attention was that it was done by one of the world's biggest branding agencies. Yeah, I'm called land or back in two thousand and nineteen and and then being the people that rolled it out for them as a result. So not a lot of sorry, I was just going to add. It's nice that, you know, because on this particular series of podcast we've sort of talked had a real range of like, you know, one brands that are really focused on like their messaging, some that have really focused on like their purpose, you know, their customer. The customer engagement has been some of the big things. And then, I think that's why pet bun's been particularly interesting, because the visual the visual identity is so strong and something that they really actually went and improved in order to, you know, kind of, I guess, try and fix a need that the business itself was having. Yeah, and we'll get into that as we go along here. So what we want to do, as always here, is do a broad critique of what pet bun does with their strategy in terms of updating this identity of their's to connect with a consumers better, obviously, but for us to be more aware of what goes into this brand building process, especially in an evolution of what pet bunt has done here over twenty years, to empower all of us to take these learnings and apply them to our own brands and those brands that we work with, if we were also a brand of consultant like Delphi and I are, and how we bring all those puzzle pieces together so that we can all be better decisionmakers when buying the products or positioning our brands to, you know, be somewhat like these brands that are really kicking goals around Australia, as we're all focusing here on Australian brands. So, and I think it's a good thing also, as we always say, is that even if you are a small brand, Oh yeah, because we've talked a lot about, especially in this season, you know, quite big brands, but it's really important to kind of see where small brands have started and even even small, you know, one person, micro brands can still take learnings away from what these other businesses are doing, and so that's what we really hoping that you know this. These episodes can do for you as even if it's one small thing, you can take away and use that to kind of empower you in how you're working with your brand. It's that Tony robins quite like the there's success leaves clues as as that trickle down kind of things are. You can take something from some of us. Not to say you need to be a big brand overnight. Yes, it's ridiculous. So what about that? So let's let's talk target Mark First. Yeah, if a pet farm, I mean realistically it's a pet shop. It's a bit owners. Yes, it's probably not very really anybody else, kind of here or there. Yeah, what's people who have animals, pets or animals in their life? I would have I would say like it's kind of covers all of that whole spectrum of its. Yeah, pretre ownership. Yeah, but look for me in terms of pets, especially in Australia, demographically it's more focused on dog owners, cat owners and fish. There are things for they called rodents, I don't know, rabbits. You know myce oh? Yeah, yeah, ass that kind of gamut of animal. Yeah, I've never owned one of them. I don't know if I ever really would want to. But not to say that they can't care for all of those animals that are out there. People might have snakes. There's a go up the road here that had a snake or was going went from walking at this diamond pith and just on the front lawn. I was like, as you do, what the Hell is happening? Yeah, but in terms of so yeah, in terms of like pet bun here, I said them as a real end to end pet care solution. So I only have to know of one brand really that I need to go to get all the things. Yeah, exactly. Cool. Well, be cause they are, you know, they're like...

...a pet supermarket. So you know, they stuck a whole bunch of different brands. They're very you know, they've got a big range and I think of what they've done so well in positioning is partnering themselves with that Vet Because, you know, it's one of those it's like when you go to the doctor surgery and the chemist is next door. Yes, that kind of idea where you're like, I need help, but I know where, like I don't have to go anywhere else because the thing is right there and you just buy default get that feeling that they care more because they're connected with the vet. Yeah, and the vets that you know, the doctor of the pet exactly exactly, if that's what bets are called. But Yeah, sorry to all the vets out there. Not offending anything hopeful, but yeah, in terms of end end of what the gamut is is adoption. So you can adopt a pet through their partnership with the RSPCA. They obviously sell products of food and toys and shelter kind of things like Kennels and little basket things for cats to go in. Obviously the vet veterinarian side of things. They also have grooming, the dog wash in some of their stores that they have training for puppies and dogs. They offer pet insurance, which is very contentious thing sometimes with pets, and then they have a charity and a partnership with a Kennel Hotel kind of thing for cats and dogs. Not Everywhere but in certain places. So is it's a huge what you'd call a brand architecture about what they have going on and look to manage that for any business is huge. It it pulls your arms in different ways and they kind of they sort of in terms of like going we're going to be the one thing for the one person. Yeah, know, they're not in that sense. They're kind of being where the where the all for every anyone with a pet, like we can do it all, or anyone who wants a pet or anyone who's got an animal in their life, like where the go to for that? But it's uncertainly yet certainly scaled up a lot bigger than just being, you know, selling pets. Yeah, so what you'd call that in Terminologies, for tempt for Terminology Sake, is a branded house. So branded house is something, whether that's all under the pet barn name, apart from Green Cross, which is the veterinarian side of things. Why they don't just come under on the Green Cross or one of the other beyond me, but that's okay in terms of the difference between a branded house. And then you have a house of brands, is one that has different identities for each service. So some of the car brands do that. So Volkswagen owns a whole heap of think they own porsh and all these other different car brands you know of off the top of my head, I have no idea all of them are, but that's their own kind of identities and they're the kind of parent brand that owns them. So typically harder to manage in those respect but it's not to say that having a branded house, of having the same identity isn't hard to manage. It always is with those kind of subbrands. I would just take a step back actually, because you made that comment about why they're not under the same identity. I actually think that it would be like it, although they had the same market, they have to appear in a different way to their cut consumers. So the vet, like if the vet took on the pet barn look and feel, MMM, which we're going to talk about later. But if they took on that, I think they would lose a whole bunch of credibility because the pet barn it look and feel, it's about a shop, it's about buying products, and the vet itself needs to have a reputable medical like people are going there with, for sure, times very, very severe, you know issues. So I feel like that's probably why they haven't combined the two as a consistent, you know, the same look and feel, because they do in like they they are doing different things for pet owners and I think that, like that's the same way as I guess a chemist and a doctor surgery and not even you know, you can have this warehouse, for instance, which is kind of like the everything's you know, you can get anything you need in the chemist capacity here. We officer it. Also have prescriptions. But you know, you wouldn't imagine going if you went to a doctor that look like chemists warehouse, you'd feel like dodge, is this okay? So I feel like that you're maybe that's the same name and maybe just like if it was visually the same or similar kind of Tis. Maybe, yeah, colors like just to have that kind of association there. I feel like might be a little anyway. Yeah, it's not really the biggest thing in the world, but it's interesting to see because you don't, we don't often see brands that have so like when, for instance, when we talked about go tom just for the listeners, when we talk about go to a few weeks ago in episode six, go to skincare, for instance, they had three sub they three brands under the same go to banner. So that sort of same kind of house of brands. However, those were all like they were distinctive but still connected. where I think what we're talking...

...about here frank is that it feels like Green Cross and pet barn a very, very dissimilar in their look and feel, but yet they're under the same correct banner. Yeah, so, yeah, so, yeah. But I think in terms of positioning and target market, by having these all these services, is having his house of brands, they're really capturing that whole pet owner, pet parent market. Yeah, costwise, I imagine that they're, without looking too much into it, I imagine that they're probably on the, you know, more affordable range because they are like in that kind of warehouse capacity with such a big range. They're that supermarket, yeah, style thing. Yeah, kind of on the money? Yeah, I guess, since it depends on what the product is. I've found from buying cat food especially, it really kind of depends on what you're buying and when, especially because pet bun does do a lot of offers, especially if you're a member of the thing, and we will talk with the membership is. But in terms of how they position selves Value Wise, a lot of their other kind of products, things like cat towers or homes, they're not like cheap, they're not bargain basement cheap. They're still quite substantially priced, but I think it's kind of that middle ground of being affordable and being accessible to have everything there, but because they are such a big, big business that they can afford a discount and I think it's one of those potential brands where you might not buy a lot of the time until just discount is available, depending on the type of pet you have. If you're a dog and that dog eats like there's nobody's business, there is a thing that they have called a frequent feeder program where you do get discount still if you buy in bulk kind of things. So yeah, there's there's still some real competitiveness of what they have in terms of price, but it's not out of reach prices, put it that way. Yeah, no, no, absolutely, and I noticed when we're researching one of the key reasons for them looking to do this rebrand for pet barn was because they were they could. They were losing business to the growing stock that supermarkets were holding and so that was like could. They were genuinely finding that that was whether that was based on price or convenience. So you know, if you're at the supermarket you can buy the dog to both cat food or whatever exactly. You didn't have to go to a special shop to do it. So I think that's that was interesting. In one of the drivers for them, the triggers, I suppose, for them doing this rebrand, was that they were actually, you know, losing market share. Yeah, in that in that space. And then there's obviously all the other competitors that all other pets, food stores or suppliers or all those sorts of things that they all take definitely would be a competitor to them. I know that I kind of asked a couple of friends who had pets if they, you know, use pet barn and none of them did. Now whether that's because it's not local to them, but most of them yet used kind of a smaller, you don't local person up the road who sold the pet food that they needed or didn't, you know, really had to get the stuff or they use they bought from the butcher anyway, because their dogs and cats are on a yacial human diet. You're not human feed, but you know where they got to cook it and look at allergiesn't yet. So it's interesting to kind of thinkin about how much, how who uses these goes to these that intentionally go to these shops like you do for your and I know if I was probably going to buy a pet or look into a pet, they'd be the places I'd go. Like we were looking for a fish for one of the kids once and I went to that to pet bun so that was the place I went to to investigate fish. So I think you kind of it's sort of maybe that not an entry level, but I definitely think that they've got the presence which makes you go there the place to go for pet information. So that kind of they're kind of definitely getting, whereas I would definitely not go to like a small pet shop because I probably wouldn't even know that they existed if I have passed them. So that's where I guess, you know, having presence helps you build that yeah, familiar out. I mean there's a few competitors that are quite present in areas where you would buy. Like pepper I'm typically presents themselves as a brand that's with other businesses, not like them, obviously, but where you might go specifically to get something like they're generally near homeworld kind of, so homemaker center type place. That's exactly right. So like your bunning's and freedom and those kinds of brands that we've talked about in our show before of position cells. There it's not a sa that others aren't. There's another one called pet circle, which is online generally. Is One called pet oh and pet stuff lock. PETO is a terrible name for a business in general, but yeah, but there's pet stock is one...

...of the ones that typically POPs up in the same kind of places where pet bun is and that's probably the one that I see quite a bit of, if it's not pet bun. But then yeah, supermarkets is one of those things, I think, from a convenient standpoint, like even aldie sell pet food and cat letter and dog food and all that kind of stuff. Not the full gamut of care, obviously with things that you need to have like tick treatments and all that kind of stuff for your pet, but it's there for the general everyday kind of food based things or sanitary based stuff that is taking away that market share from brand like pet bun. So it's quite a competitive market. It's not one of those things that they have a total strangle hold on or something kind of oligopally about it, but it's at least one of those brands as position themselves as one of the big businesses. Yeah, it's a got one that comes to mind. And part of that problem, like we mentioned before, of needing to differential in themselves, to be above and beyond the corporate you know, Woolli's brands, are Aldie or even some of the other pet stores that aren't as vibrant, is to remind their customers why they and their pets love pet butt. So to be that top of mind brand them to go to and I think it's one of those things. It's like some other players in their own industries which are now the leading go to names. If you think of electronics in Australia, you typically will now go to JB hi Fi. USED TO BE Harvey Norman. Now jbhifer comes along with a similar yellow brand and takes that kind of position. It's the same with bunnings. Kind of blown out all the little other competitors and made it its own with its real distinctive assets and size and scalability and amount of stores, and it's just interesting to see how there's these market kind of leaders pop up and scale because they've done it at scale. Hmm, absolutely souls to have kind of everything under the one roof, but I think this. I think what's interesting is in that is that you can look at how people might transition to start buying at those different places. So, for instance, like my experience of needing a fish, like I would have gone to pet bum because I was familiar with it, that it was and it was in a homemaker center, so it was accessible and easy nearer I lived right but when we used to have a dog, I never went there. I know I did go to this particular, you know, small place in nearer where we lived at that point, like this small little shop. However, if, for instance, they didn't have the thing that I needed for the dog or that I was told by the vet that I need to get, or whatever it was at the time, which might make me then go to another place like pet barn, it's interesting to think, well then, how does pet barn then capture you in there so you keep going there? So often we don't. We don't make the decision to go somewhere new off the class because because of that, yet we almost yet exactly, we don't generally go. I've seen that branding. I'm going to try somewhere different, because you're already happy with the place you're going. However, it's the time when they're the thing doesn't work or there's some particular events that happens that means that you don't go to the normal place that you've gone or you have to change your behavior because you've moved or something like that. And then it's the impact that the brand has had over time that makes you got. I think about pet bun now, so I'm going to go to that, that place, because they might have it, because I remember that they're big and they've got all these other things. And then you go there and they have it, but then at the same time they show you love and compassion and care for your pet, because that's what they're all about, and then you go, oh well, this is the place to go. So that's kind of an interesting thing, I think, for anyone listening to remember that it's not it's not you do the branding and then all of a sudden that you get the customers. It's the fact that over time you have been consistently showing up and telling, you know, explaining to people and connecting with the audiences and showing that you care, and then that one time when they have to change their behavior and they do go to the new place, the pet barn place, because they've seen it and they've remembered it, and then you kind of bring them in with all the love and care and attention. That's how you keep you know, that's how you acquire a new customer. Yeah, yeah, you give him around. Buy more, buy more. A lot of people talk about, you know, even brand loyalty. I'm doing a newsletter about brand loyalty today. Loyalty and whether or not it really exists for some customers or not, is something to really comes down to the individual or how they describe it. But a lot of businesses, like pet bun have loyalty programs. Yeah, and that's what can generally keep someone around, if you're enticing someone...

...to buy more and more, you know, and to stay. Type of mind. Once you do acquire a customer, how do you keep him around? Obviously that's where marketing and advertising can come in so that you do stay on the radar and you are giving back, you know, an offer for that repeated business to keep, you know, hanging around, basically. But you know, for them another part, that part of side of loyalty and thing like that. In a change, a bit of tune here. Of they have something interesting in terms of their position that kind of situates themselves as something for what it is they do, and this is something I'm exploring with my own clients, is to have a single kind of minded concept that, yea, the brain revolves around to position themselves. Might not be that something that you would know the word or words, but for them they center everything around care. So what can pet bun do to make this a brand where people think, okay, I need to care if I a pet. Where do I go? Yeah, they got it to these guys. You know, I need to take into a vent. Where do I go? I need to buy them food, where do I go? I need to tip them, treat them for ticks, where do I go? All these kind of things. Is Coming back to the central idea of care, so that if they hire people, are they caring people? Are these products going to care for a person's pet if they're just total crap, like a whiskers or whatever? We don't want to carry that stuff, like whatever, things like that. Yeah, and it's how they connect to it like that word care is also who they wanted to be their customers. YEA, exactly. You're not going to have, like I mean they want to, they want to embrace that market or position themselves that market. Who Do pride themselves on their love and care that they've got for their pets or encourage the care? Yeah, exactly, because I think you know, definitely, in terms of pet Omans owners, there's a huge range of pet owners. Right there's the the people who they're literally their pets are their life like and that's completely understandable and wonderful and lovely and they would do absolutely anything for their pets. And those you know that those people money is really like they would find any money that they needed to care for their pets and give their pets the best things that they needed. And then there's you. You know, you've got the other people who not that there's only two thoughts, but the other people who maybe have had um. You know, they thought it was a good idea to get a pet for a Christmas present and then realize that they're really hard work and you know, it's then they're just going to give them the stuff that they need or whatever. Like I'm not saying that that's definitely a pet is a someone for life and you need to thought. Sorry, something for life and you need to be fully embracing it. But I'm wondering whether for Pet Barn, you know, they're really positioning themselves with those people who will do everything that they need to care for their pet, as you said, with that back Word Care, I'm going to say in terms of for me not having ever owned a pet, part from a goldfish when I was about two or three years old, Peace Thomas, having bought a cat for my wife a few years back. Again, it was a was a present, was it for Christophers though, but we bought a cat, lovely, you know, Russian blue cat, gorgeous look at, a bit of a fiend for a cardboard box. But in terms of the care level, I had no idea to care for a pet. And I'm I'm the owner, like I'm it's not. It's not Sam something life, even though she was the one that likes cats. I'm the owner. Yeah, you know, clean up and bites food and take it to the vet and all the rest of it. So for me it's a real learning curve and I think having pet bun there has helped me understand what it takes to care for an animal in a different way. That it is too for a human, obviously, but yeah, our child. That's it. It's a whole other kettle offish. But in terms of heat care, of knowing, okay, I need to vaccinate, I need to give them flee and tick and worm treatment, I need to feed him, this kind of thing. What's the full gamut here to we need a wash my cat. I have no idea. Do you wash cats? Well, that kind of stuff. So they've helped you, so pet on course, how amazing. Should do them a testimonial. Yeah, and I've never had a bad experience and I'll talk about that in there are wrapper but it's always focused primarily on okay, if you have a cat here, you can put a profile into your membership here and we'll give you tailored content around that kind of thing. And so in terms of positioning, for me I'm very hesitant to choose another brand because of it, unless there's some kind of offer there that might get me a discount on some food, because the food can be fairly expensive. And other than that it's it's always I'll come back to center, basically, and Center for me is is pet. But now, yeah, yeah, because you've got all the things you needed from them. That's A. Yeah, that's excellent, I think inside for you. Yeah, no, it is, but why? Is because it's...

...something that I haven't you know. Yeah, yeah, you know, I haven't connected with. So I think it's important and we and I think being cared for is one of the big things that's important with any like. We've got to remember how important customer services and so you feel like you're being cared for when you go there, and so that's really important, as well as again feeding back that message, which is good, to kind of get into messaging from there. Yes, so they're the next kind of area that we always like to talk about when we're critiquing the brands is looking at their messaging, and often we had sort of touched on it there in that kind of maybe that key word that we that pet barn appears to be trying to embrace as the word that is all. You know, what people think of when they think of pet Barne is care. So I think that's really you know, you've talked about that frank and that's you know, touched on that a lot. But messaging is like what is what are the things that people that the brand is trying to communicate to their audience? So that they understand what they're about and and when, and usually they sort of consistency with that and in some time, like some brands we've spoken about, it's really clear and cohesive and and other ones that sort of hasn't even really you know, it's not really evident at all. So that's something that we like to talk about and definitely something that both frank and I, with our own cust like clients, we work on a lot. Is that idea of what's the key messaging that you want your consumers and audience to understand about you and what you want to tell them? It doesn't have to be dense either. It I can be very single minded of the same thing said so many different ways. Kind of thing to make it kind of distilled down it into someone's head that maybe, if they do remember you for a certain few things. One of them could be your tagline or some kind of call to action or maybe even a jingle kind of slogan that you'd have that says a little bit about what the business is, but also something to have that a asociation between both brand and the customer. So for something like amy and they have a jingle and it's like like you're with a me, that kind of thing. Yeah, my beautiful singing, but to have that kind of association here with Pet Barn isn't certainly I don't think many customers would have a sense of I didn't at all. I don't get anything from their website, from their social media, apart from a general tone of voice and personality. Yeah, and I think where it really stems from was based on their rebrand. Their solution to being something that's differentiated from the other brands like them and be a supermarkets or other pet stores, was to, you know, be inspired by the weird and wonderful personalities of the pets that they care so much about and they transform pet bonds identity into a living, breathing, kind of, as they say, tail wagging brand to make it something that I guess if you're a one of the shop owners or staff in there, they're generally hide as people that are genuinely loving, caring pet lovers and they're always typically very helpful people. They know their stuff at least and always there to kind of help you, and that care fact that kind of comes into it and how they speak and things, that mannerism, that kind of thing is is generally inherent in their own personalities, but it comes through with some kind of feeling that this is a place that is a bit fun, is it isn't so serious and whatever you hear, you here to buy a tick trip. You need this. You need the kind of like what a doctor, you know, or exactly a pharmacist might be. It's a little bit more, you know, playful and how you go and kind of thing. But I don't think there's a huge amount of messaging specifically that they use to really underpin the brand of what experience are you going to get? Yeah, yeah, so, so it's you know, they've got this tagline which is likes a treat, which is quite cute. You know, it's very like it to yeah, I never heard of it, but until we I never notice it. Do we did this reason? Yeah, to me, I don't know. I wonder if it existed before they did the rebrand. But yeah, but yeah, that they've got that tagline which is lits a treat, which is really cute, and that, you know, they do sort of this this idea of like, you know, every search everything for pet so they kind of really trying to promote this idea that that nothing's out of you know, out of reach. If you need something to do with a pet, we can help you with that. So they're kind of used that that sort of language quite a bit, where they sort of cover all their bases. You know, five ways to keep your pet healthy and happy, and you know, they've kind of got these ideas that they can do everything. I feel like the language that they're using in the messaging talks a lot about that idea that there's nothing that they can't solve or help you with im even down to like on their website they've got kind of one of those Google way people of I've seen this on Google...

...ads, where they like type in the questions that people always ask. So it's, you know, and I think that's quite a clever way of you getting the user to see, okay, I can't ask anything here. Make nothing's out of out of reach. And and so they're making it really accessible, I think, with their you know, with the way that they're using language and using interactivity on the website. But yeah, in terms of actual you like external message. Yeah, yeah, there's not nothing that sort of stands out to us as being, you know, they're the that's the wording and that's they're trying to tell everything here. So internally, I think the only two kind of things that mean they have this on their instagram page. But the first one is that they say we believe that life is better with pets. Yeah, I think it's just a general nice sentiment to say, okay, this is a brand for people that, you know, believe that life is better with pets. Yeah, to have that same kind of commonality. It's nearly, you know, it's nearly a brand value there without having a kind of one word thing. That, yes, sort of value. And then the other part to it, which I do have on Instagram, is make the world a happier place through a love of pets. Yes, and I think that that's their jet. You know, they genuinely think that. Even on there about us, which is actually quite a good about US page, if you know, then we get told a lot about on about us, not to actually talk about yourself, but to talk about it. It's better your person yeah, how your brand can help the customer. And so it will be worth while having to look at there about US page because it's very much that story around why pet barn is so valuable to people who love pets because they also love pets. And Yeah, it's it's actually quite a nice little a little bit of yeah, if you if you're listening and you want to see a good about US page, I think that's a good one. Where is Dolphin? I were both on the about page trying to look for a bit about the history of the inception, but free. But there was all about their customers said, and that's a good one. Do it the right way. Yeah, the right way we do. We're looking for the opposite. But there's a there's a book about this if you wanted to learn a bit about messaging. I might have mentioned it on this podcast before, but Donald Miller writes a book called building a story brand and his whole thing is to say, if you're going to write a story, right about the person that's reading it rather than about yourself kind of thing. It's not a it's not an autobiography here. You want to write, you know, as compelling story that brings that person in the see them heres in part of the story exactly. Yeah, so jinks. I think I think that that's yeah, good, it's a good definitely a good read. But also I think that they've done that really well, on the pet barn website. Very simple they've yeah, and I again thinking about that whole thing of how people are using their information. So predominantly people would be coming to the website to buy product. Yeah, that's what they're coming there for. You want to touch on what else they're doing while they're there? So, you know, sometime they might want to direct people to have have useful things. Like they've got some guides they're on how to look after you, like you would have. This would have been useful for you. Yep, frank when you got your cats. Oh Yeah, how do I look after my kitten? So, you know, they've got like those sorts of articles, but it's not like they're posting every five seconds like something. You know, they've got a select group of articles on their website and obviously in their news that it. They'd pre have, you know, more relevant campaign information, but I think they've kind of be really kind of covered that they have all the information that you need for your pet and this is the place to come to if you need it. And and and definitely kind of encouraging that in store engagement, I think as well. So, yeah, let's talk about the visual side of things. Yes, because this is the real hero of what it is. We really stretched out the messaging longer than I thought it would. There we go. You go purpose. So terms of this visual idea, let's break it down in terms of what you see. Is Yellow, purely yellow, but also the black there. That has it real contrast. So it's yellow and lovely yellow. It's not a tackle or yellow. It's not a like yellow highlight of yellow. No, it's a really warm, nurturing yellow and I think that's like that. For me, that's a big antick for this especially is rebrand but also just using color the right way and that it creates a tension. But it's also like not a it's not in the wrong tone. It's like the it's given the rights that warm tone right, because I find no exactly. So if you said it's in yellow, it's a yellow brand, you kind of like, I will it could be Jamie Hi fi yellow, it could you know, it's it could be McDonald's yellow. Like this is a different yellow. It's a warm kind of Sun Yellow and many yellows. It's like looking at us so many you can that paint wall of yellows and going what one are we doing? That's a blue thinking. It's not duck egg rubber ducky. Yeah, well, that's exactly right.

So I think it's important when we think about color, is it. There are so many versions of colors. So one of the key things here is going with the actually really the branding agency have used really warm, welcoming, you know, nurturing yellow, which I think is really important here. But then it's contrasted with this black. So yeah, you go, Franks Rot. Good, like, I'm into the yellow. Yeah, yellow, if we only had the copyright clear as to play that song from the coldplay. Yes, in terms of what they've done, though, yellow had been there always for pet barn, since before they rebranded. With the rebrand, though it was, it was changing that icronography from something that was just white. It's like icons, like linear type of icons, which are pretty fairly pedestrian for most brands. I mean know I do make them for myself my clients, but it's not the hero of the story. So for them that was the hero of their brand, but it wasn't really anything to write home about. So part of this reround was to bring on an illustrator. His name's Marco Palmieri. I didn't watch that, probably did. He's a Melbourne based illustrator. He's fantastic what he does. He's worked with massive brands, optus here in Australia, Lego, you might have heard of him. Google, Netflix, target, Oreo, mm's Hines, just the Gammet. So that's what he's doing and he makes both animations in illustrations and for pet but they kept their word mark, which delph. You can dissect. But in terms of using the illustrations as a showpiece of what the brand can be remembered for and allows people to connect with that brand more, is to give it that personality, as you know, if it's a fairy animal, of it's a feathered animal, it's a gaily animal, whatever it might be. It yeah, it was so good that it won them a what you call a DND DNA d award. I don't know that stands for, but it's a big industry advertising and marketing and that kind of design awards over in London. Interesting that was an in Australia. But that's okay for the best illustration of moving images because they do animate them as well so they can put them in the ads on social media as well on their site and it just makes that much that little bit more playful and really hits at the heart of what kind of bread they want to be seen and connected with. Yeah, it's with and it definitely this is one where you want to go and look at the website or look at out socials to see examples of. Yes, I've got all that going on for. Yeah, it's Um, it's real, it's really it's just so lighthearted and enjoyable to look at and like just really playful. Like you you know, one of those the joys of having a pet is that they give you that love and play and nurture and all those sorts of things, and I think that they've really done such a great job of capturing that in this rebrand, but being still really consistent and and true to, you know, that the color that they did have before, as you said. So, although they've brought in these new elements with this refresh, I mean I feel like it's more of a refresh, but you know, they've they've been really yeah, they've been really kind of true to it and very clever, like they've just, you know, even like the brochures, for instance, having like the playful letters or the cats climbing in and they've used examples where the there's like a big black cat icon sitting on the top of the sign, on like on the facier of the building or on them pop it. Yeah, exactly, and on their on their boxes when it's still. And again there's a great visuals you got to see them. But when the box is delivered, because they do a lot of you know, it's all online, or sorry, a lot of it's online shopping, when the boxes delivered, it looks like there's a their cat sitting your doorstep. Yes, like it's just so sweet. And I don't know if you're familiar with this, which when I first saw the vision, like the visual identity, one of the things I remember to my parents have these black wooden cats that are cut out and they sit on top of door frames around, because saying those free doesn't come to more. Might have to get mum Sacha Photo, cause it's this is what I like, when I first saw it. That's what I remembered and I wondered if there was sort of some influence from that, you know, that idea of this like because it's really sweet, like it's a really but they've obviously built on it. Marcos built in it, you know, great deal, and Yees, whole range of animals. But yeah, it's a really lovely kind of idea of his. Oh there it is, go, can you spot it? And that's what's Nice. Like it's all it's subtle but also still quite strong. So yeah, and I think there's a there's lots of fun and again, like they're across their socials, these these characters play out a huge amount and it's just really you know, they use them for all of their their communications. So they're branded communications. They've got these you know, use these pet icons and they've got...

...yell. They're very dynamic, I suppose. Yeah, and just very like rounded and nothing harsh about them. They all look for the same kind of style, which has, you know, even though they're all different types of animals, you still for that kind of uniformity. Yeah, the eyes stay the same. Idiot, although fun stuff. Yeah, that makes it feeling tap into that, you know, that fun personality in eccentricities and quirks and things of what makes our pets something that you know we'd love them for or whatever makes you remember them by. They tap into that kind of sensibility of how you want to connect with a brand that that nourishes that kind of idea of, you know, we want to when I I care for these little personalities, that kind of thing. So it's the keep. I wonder how they I was thinking about how they manage this as an in a social media capacity for instance, or brand capacity. Like wonder if they had like just a massive stock pile of illustrations that they use. I reckon that would and you reckon they just got all of them in the hand over. Yeah, and then, because there's so many, oh yeah, like they've got so many, they've got, you know all they've got someone in house doing them. Well, look, it's a big it's a bigger branding age the land ors. Yeah, one of the biggest. It's up there with Pendagram. So I don't think they'd be would have, you know, fighted around and doing just a couple of PNG renders. Yeah, yeah, but I think that's what also like. It just creates that huge consistency and you would expect that from a big brand like your pet barn. I mean I think if you're a small brand you you wouldn't and you could certainly tone it right back, but you see that overall you know all of their look even if, even if mark I wouldn't have it if market didn't have a hand in the full roll. At at least you have a style there that an animator or another illustrator to come along ago. That's the style. Let's yet with it and we can make something in time. Again. I don't think I've been that hard to do, know, but you're right. And when you do look at everything over all, you see this fantastic consistency. All right, Delphi, world mark, go. I think it's I have no problem to that. Oh my God, that's done well. Look at they've kept it around. They haven't changed. Now they haven't changed. It's very simple in terms of like it's not offensive in any way. I mean you kind of go, could they be more clever with it? But then does it need to be? It doesn't need to be like they've got that root, you know, life to treat underneath it in that word mark and then they're hero in this sense, I think, is the you know, fantastic illustrations and and you know, communicating that that message through, you know, through those illustrations and through that dynamic way that they're used. I think it as a logo Ma word markets. You know, it's well balanced. It's got some interesting you know, the tea itself has got some interesting where it joins the top bar joins that. You know, that's on an angle. It's not just a straight and Sarah. So you know, even the balance between the around the B and the A and are like there's not things there that are offensive. So now I mean it's it's great, it's fine, it's not, it's nothing as in, oh my gosh, this is like the most incredible word Mark I've ever seen, but at the same time it's it's very it's fine and it works well across you know, big and small. They use it. You know, works in their circle, all of those sorts of things. So it's yeah, I don't think that there's anything. All right, happy day is because they've been a pause for them. Yep, good, thanks really imply. There we go for pet barn unless yeah, it was, but yeah, it was a pet bun. Sorry, you can be plumped in there too. Look for me, in terms of what they have going on here with their visual identity, it stands at leaps and bounds, yeah, from their competitors, which is, I think, one of those things that even other businesses around them, like there's a pet barn in a homemaker kind of center where we go in Paen Rath as as Bunnings, and there's all the other different places of Harbhenomenal what it stands at. You can see it from a mile away. They're right next to super cheap order, which is read so even right next to them they're contrasting but still both in their own right very visible. But for me I just really wonder that if you're an industry where they haven't used, no one else's use yellow, and you know you were, in some way or shape or form, you know, the dominating kind of player in that market or you don't have a, you know, direct competitor that's using that kind of color or not, I really wonder if you came along and rebranded and use this kind of yellow, especially if you're not positioned as a premium brand, to go for it. For me, like it's up there with eyecatching, you know, colors like red and pink, like kind of I what are you use and mean for me, even with yellow place spot, oh, like seeing a yellow car on the road, because they really stand out, yeah, against...

...everything else and yeah, you know, even just looking at a mock up that they had on their rebrand, it has all the different other brands like Kmartin Aldi and coals and wool worth. The ones that for me that stand out are those really bright, vibrant colors. Coals use us a really, you know bold red as the background and pet BNE has this really strong yellow. Yeah, and that's what your eye draws to it. It's exactly what JB high fight does. It's what the Mexican restaurant chain goose mighty go men's uses as well. Yeah, and it just every time I'm just right there. Yeah, you can't help but but miss or not miss it. Sorry not miss it. Yeah, exactly, and I think I think it's you know, sometimes I feel like black is so heavy. I think in the hat way they've done it it's, you know, especially because they've utilized a lot, so much white space. So when we talk about white space, even though it's a yellow like around the logo mark of the logo type, around the illustrations, in all of their bits and pieces, around the black, they've used a lot of space and so I actually feel like it's done, you know, and you would expect this. But it's done so well because they've given room to the black, which it means that it doesn't feel overly heavy. Yeah, and sometimes I think that black can be like the way it's used can be just too much huch. But in this dwait, we exactly like bread up. We went pass freedom again the other day and I've Oh, the one there us hasn't rebranded yet. They've got the whole black facade but they just haven't changed their logo hit the way. So No, I think I mean pet bun and, as you really expect, it's, you know, this has just been done superbly well. And you know, even things like they've used, they use their illustrations or the little characters, yea, coming out of their word mark which is, you know, on different areas. So I think again, it's just these subtle these subtle odes to playfulness and personality that they've been able to like communicate across the whole, you know, range of the all the branded items. So but yeah, I think I think the yellow in the black and white together, obviously they're the colors just so strong, but done really tastefully and and and the design, using I think design principles here has really played a big part because they've allowed for space and a mix between kind of something playful with those illustrations and something that's still, you know, really professional in that word mark. The other thing, Mrs for me is not having like an icon, like some kind of logo markets by itself. That's the only thing that I think that could be there in some way, shape or form. I think, you know, if they don't use the word mark, they use a symbol of either a dog or a cat. As there the thing. It's sometimes just use the pay as well. Okay, yeah, like I in their fabricorn and stuff, that's all in a yellow. Sorry, there was some kind of icon that just did it. I don't know what it would be, but I feel like the dog or the cat like that illustration style has. You know, if you saw that separately over time that would become quite I you know, it's yeah, conic. They use that at the bottom of, you know, their socials and those sorts of things. Like it's very it's very connected now to that brand. But you're right, they don't just have something. But I think, I think this is the thing, and I'm not dismissing your comment, but I feel like sometimes we do get stuck on rules like we you need to have an icon or you need to have so it's a rule. I just like icons, do just like them. And if and the reason they're useful is for a responsive yes, you know, identity as a pay to it. There's a reason that it works. Yeah, so it is interesting because, you know, being that it is a short word, pet barn, and that's it. You know, you can kind of fit that still in a readable sense, in it. You know, I'm not, I'm not a dummy here that to say that there aren't brands that don't do well without one. Like Samsung is one that that comes to mine that doesn't have an icon. Yeah, it's sally fine if you don't have an icon with your brain, if you're listening to this, to not have something like that. I just kind of feel like it's one of those assets that you can have that makes your branding quite versatile. Yeah, and if you can do it, than kind of white not type of thing. Yeah, but it's not one of those things you're going to write how and go well, you're a terrible brand if you don't have one. Home, my God, what are you doing? And I also think that it's a kind of one of those things that over times quite interesting because, like back in the day, you didn't need to do it. have no exactly, kick doesn't circles, and it's the way we see and experience brands now. That means that identity systems literally can't just be one logo, you know. You need a range of, you know, identifiable elements. That's at work. Yes, exactly. So you need to have all of those things that consistently used over time create connections, and I think that that's...

...one of the key changes in how we understand and become familiar with brands. that it has changed over time, because it used to be literally you could just have a logo and that was enough, whereas now we know that that's you know, yeah, we know the so much evidence to say that that's not that's not enough. Yes, it's never enough. Brands grows never enough, especially with more competition coming on the scene. You know, what can you do to stand out? And Yeah, I think pet une achieve that with their identity of how they've re kind of done it, which is good. I think what really makes that sing, though, is how you experience that in the Daytoday, part of things. So what kind of brain experience does a brand and a business offer its customers to make it then memorable, as much as their logo might be or their colors might be, or their message might be or that central idea of care might be. So how does that all transcend into something that plays out in the real world for a customer to experience or an audience, you know, to experience? They do in so many different ways here. It's one of those brands that we said at the started is that covers all the bases and the one that they're obviously known for most is their store experience of either going in store or now online. Again, for me, never had a bad experience going in there. Their stores. Do Click and collect for online as a result of pandemic life. Yeah, but I think they might have done it before that anyway, being able to order online and then go and pick it up and having home delivery obviously as well. Yeah, for an extra price. But in terms of going in there, you can take your pets in there. It's been friendly to go in there, that you dog in there or whatnot. I don't think you take your cat on a leash or anything like that, but it's one of those stores. It's big, it's open, it's welcoming. I haven't had it anyone in there getting annoyed or any like that. It doesn't seem like one of those stores to get frustrated at. So it's a nice kind of environment, at least in depending on if you like the smell of pet food and pet products all night, it's a bit a different one. But the other parts of the experience, obviously, is if you do frequent the brand quite a lot is. They have frequent feeder program which is one part of their loyalty type of side of things where if you do buy it on a weekly or a month the basis, you can get a discount each time as long as you sign up to it and you pay sequentially in that. And then they have the friends for life loyalty program which is kind of like what woolworths do with the everyday rewards or calls do with the flybys program, where you the more you buy, you can get you ten doll or twenty out or something like that, based on a point system per the amount of purchases you have. That's rewarding and at least you get that little bit of something back if you purchase, you still need to spend like five hundred to a thousand dollars worth of stuff to get a ten dollar reward. But that's the same in walls as well. So I think that's a an interesting like where we think about behavioral science as well. And what helps people keep coming back is it's this funny thing about like, even if you don't really know the benefit, you feel like you're getting fit, like it's this perceived value that you feel like you're getting or you're being part of a club. So you know, just most people wouldn't even ask how much do I need to spend to get the thing? No, but they wouldn't even know how much you need to spend. No, now that exactly. So you just sort of still get it because you feel like, oh, that like I'm going to get a discount with this. So it's just this perceived idea of what loyalty like is going to do, and I think we do have, like when were you touched on loyalty before? Is that I think we do have. We have an expectation of what our loyalty will do. Like I know just recently I spoke to Adobe, I on to act talk to you about this frank but I contacted them and I said, I don't want to pay what you're asking me to pay for this next subscription. I've been using you for nearly twenty years. Like I, you know this is a ridiculous and so I said I need some, you know, good will here, and they didn't. They've offered me a much better price, which is great, and and so, but I think, I think it's in I think that loyalty is something that we do we have come to expect a reward for and I think it's at all we expect some something back for it. And so it's interesting because so many businesses do have these loyalty programs and you think will them. They must work, they must they must keep people coming back. Yes, to some extent, or I think doesn't. Yeah, there's another part of layal to it's I think it's a bit of a facade to giving back. I think it's more lawsy programs now to really understand what who their customers are. Yes, yeah, they're trying to get information from them or what they do exactly. I mean both always do this. But so to pet bar in terms of the experience of having emails that are tailored to like it. So you know, here's the latest, you know, food...

...deals on this kind of satiet or this bag or whatever, seeing as always seen you by it, but for that kind of thing. So you're getting tailored offerings and either for a discount rate or whatever. But then there's also the other element to it of that care part, where you're getting sent cat care information or dog care or whatever your pet is, HM, based on the pet information that you've put into it. Like on my friends for Life Program I've got a photo of my cat when she was a few days of a few weeks old, sitting there like still little kitten. Just funny. Look at each time and you see, you know, the progress that you've had as a customer with them, how long you been with them. I'm something like platinum member or something. I don't even know what that means, but that's will be. This will even further than platinum. Surely. Yeah, the amount of people that are, you know, buy dog food. But yeah, yeah, in terms of that, it's them learning who I am to then be able to offer that care. kind of that that facade that's here. But yeah, yeah, more of a personalized experience, and so many businesses do this. You know, airlines do it now, always do. It is there's so many. Like I even look at wor worse and they've got deals on certain things, like I bought last week. I'm like, how the Hell do you know? Oh, it's right again my card. Yeah, it's not like at science. It's also eating my it's making things easier. So the more a business can make their buying process easier for the consumer, the more they're going to sell. And so the fact that they can send you something that's related to that you've already bought, that's on special, that related to the animal that they know you've got, that you don't have to do any you don't have to search anything because they've just sent it to you. Like all of those things create this like we've talked about this before. They remove that friction in the buying process. And the more you can do that in in your online business, particularly if it's an online business, but are any any part of your business. But the more you can remove the friction to making a sale, the easier it is to convert, you know, a person to a sale. And so I think that we think that any business listening right now can take that away as an important lesson is like, where is their friction already? Like, where can I see friction in the business even, for example, I had this the other day. I with my like side business where I do or my hand lettering stuff. Someone wanted to buy some prints and they said I'd like to buy these prints and I said you'll have to go through the website and I set them the link. But because I had to, I couldn't fulfill their thing verbally. Like you, they've gone, and not that they don't want it, but they've gone to do something else because there was friction there in them between them saying I want to do it and the actual act of doing it. There was another few steps that had to happen and that created friction. Right. So it's so interesting to learn these sorts of things, and that's why these bigger company like, why we can learn from these bigger companies, because they have gone through all this work of working out how can we convert more sales and we can see it. We can see that these things work, because it does create it's not just we we want you to stick around, it's like we want to make this as easy as possible for you to keep buying from us, and so that's what you know. That's why those loyalty programs that are tailored really do work absolutely. And it was even the similar kind of experience when taking our cat to a green cross fit. It's first time we did last year and I this. This episodes really remind me I need to book her in front of the vaccination. But in terms of the kid that they had, they offered an experience of not so much pet insurance, but they had another kind of tear down from pet insurance to be a member, and it had a discount that included a yearly vaccination and x rays or something like that, and even discounts on products from pet barn to and that in itself was a kind of a no brainer. When the most presented to him like look, I'm as well, there's no real point me not doing it here. Yes, totally fine. I understand that that's giving me some care ands and attention here to say that this is something that we offer here. You don't have to, but it's not really be that much more out of your own pocket as you're really going to be spending here. Are you interested? Kind of thing, and they have that association between the two brands. They're just show that that that connective action, connection between the two made it feel like a well rounded experience, at least like it was in the same kind of family of things being offered here. Yeah, it's not someone else in some way, something else you needed to find or somewhere else she needed to go or yeah, I mean not to say I haven't used another vet before. We had a different vt when we lived in Sydney, but yeah, it's just one of those experiences that feels just a little bit more tailored to your needs, HMM, at least. Yeah, and I do think that's I think that's really where we see, you know, that customer service. For a long time, I think customer service was...

...lost and I feel like what they sorts of tailored buying kind of funnels, are doing a really helping people feel cared for again. Like you said before, like there's this you know, it's like customer service without having to do actual talking. Did you know what I mean? Like when it's a little fake, is potentially to some people might be very disingenuous, but I think at least it's one of those things that's there for those people that do need this kind of thing. That it, as you we said before, you know said before, reducing the friction, and I do think it depends on what it is that you're doing. Let Ye have it has this context to everything. So in this you know, like when I do my online shopping, if if it comes up with all the products I bought that are on special this week, perfect, I buy them all because I know things I already buy right like. I don't have to. I don't. I don't have to spend any longer searching for them in my shopping list because I bought them before and know probably need them again and it's on special, so that it's already like. So that is brilliant for me to reduce that friction and time that I'm spending doing the shopping. So the more you can do that for your customers, the better it's going to be. But it is contextual, like, as you said before, you kind of don't want to necessarily like if you were go into psychologist, for instance, you don't really want that service to beat like a tick box thing right like. That would feel like, as you said before, it wouldn't feel genuine. So you need to be really like it all this advice kind of comes from, you know, with a grain of salt that is related to the context of Your Business. We're talking about a product kind of base. Jesus is. If you're a product business and you're able to do it this at a scale where you can offer these kinds of experiences as a next step or next stage or whatever it is, as a result of engaging with your primary service, then that's what can happen. Like for for us, for Delphi and myself, you know, will offer brand strategy and identity creation service. After that we can help you with these experience kind of touch points of making them all stay on brand and all that kind of thing and have that aftercare type of service if you can. You know, if you're interested and want in your might not want anything exactly. Yeah, so it's it's there for the people that need it and those who want to buy into the whole experience of what peppine offer and those other things that they do have is a diy dog wash in some of them. They have these stations where you can check your dog into this big basin and wash them in there. I've never done it, obviously I've never had a dog. Always look at and go, Oh God, how would you wash your dog? That's okay, that's for those owners to figure out. But then they've got puppy and dog school, which is a big thing for pet owners there to have obedience and all the rest of it. But then they give back in foundationally, found nationally in a found out. You shouldn't that. They have, as a charity, by partnering with the Rspca, giving a medium assistance needs to hospital needs and food and all the rest of it. And they've got a lot of those connections, as you said before, where they, even though it's not actually their service, as I understand, they still kind of connect to like, you know, after hours, vets and oh not after ours, emergencies and those sorts of things, hospitals and things like that, and then also pet sitters, people that can come look after your pet while you're away. Of My sister does that, you know kind of thing. I don't think through pet bums, you just does like a house set of thing, and it's typically with people that have pets that don't want to put them in Kennels. But then again they have a service where you can put your pets into pet hotels. Yeah, which is yeah, it's just it's very end to end in terms of what what the game think that? Yeah, I think that's it. They're really like they've they've che they've got touch points in everywhere that you would need something to do with a pet. Now, that's not to mean that smaller businesses can't pull away one pilot that and go that's what we're going to do, like, as you said, like pet hotels that are you know, they'll be so many small businesses who are just doing pet hotels or so many that are just selling pet food or pet supplies or handmade pet food or you know, there's all these small businesses that are doing those things and they absolutely should continue thinking about how they can best service, because not everyone needs everything. But I think something like pet barn is going, we can actually do everything that you need, so you don't have to go elsewhere. Yeah. So, so that's you know, and that's like all the big businesses that we've spoken about. You know, that's what they're they're being able to like their bunnings. You know, they're being able to have the largest range. Yeah, price, but it doesn't mean that you're small hardware stores. You some people would still prefer to go there because they prefer that service. They don't want to be involved in a big, massive because ization. Right, I got given this analogy a few months back and it was it was more about podcasting, but you could apply this to your business as well. Of You, if you looked at your business when you're starting it out, or if you're repositioning it and rebranding it and looking at it at a through new lenses, is growing. Is If you'd said to yourself, okay, what's my...

Netflix show here like? What's the big end goal that I'm working towards that people are really going to come to US remember us for? Do we want to scale to the heights of being a number one leader in our industry? And for a lot of businesses that might be the aspiration. It's then saying, okay, how do we get there? Is it going to get there by niching into something that's just pet hotels and doing them, having a momly of that? Can we do that? Can we own the real estate? Can we do all these kind of things? Is it to have the biggest amount of pet stores for food and other pet care items? What is that going to be? What's that big Netflix, show goal that you have to get there. All big, you know, Hollywood budget movie, you know, franchise, marvel franchise or something like that. What what's that to Your Business? Yeah, and so that way, when you're you're at the scale where you at now, and I has it, I guess it's probably a small, medium business level. How do you then grow to something that is aspirationally big like that, and how do you get there with these kind of steps of the brand, a brand foundation, but then another respect is that experience level of how is it going to expand it to different things that can support that call offering. You make it something that people can remember you for and keep coming back for and keep engaging with it in different ways, rather than just the core offering scessarily. It could just be the core offering. It's, so to say, just has can't be just one thing. But typically with most brands that do grow, I think you tend to see a few other different services or little touch points that people can interact with and be pointed then a bit there, because it becomes about availability. Yes, that's what you know. As you do grow, it's about being available at scale, and that's what pet barn is demonstrating here is that they're when they're available at all those touch points, they're reaching a much bigger market. Now, for a small business, they just don't have that ability to do that right. They can't be on all those touch points. So they have to be extremely good at doing the one thing really well. Yeah, and so I think there's it's important to kind of see those differences, because what happens a lot of the time is it small business do see their bigger brands and they think how am I going to compete? But actually they're just they're such different markets. You know, you've got to think about what, how can I be the best for the one group of people who need me, and that that might be location wise, that might be a particular sort of buyer, that could be any number of things, and so I think when you are those small businesses, you do need to be really consistent with that. You know that, not the smaller mindset but the smaller focus. And then what you know compared to the bigger businesses who do just have that availability across so many touch points? Yep, Yep, that's one. That's I think that's sort of sums up, I mean for both of us. We've used pet bun before. I use when I didn't buy my fish. Yeah, okay, I've gone to pet barn there. Oh yeah, but I have the last five years at least, with our cat having get them, never set really foot into a pet shop apart from, you know, those those ones you see in shopping centers that have the little cuts dogs there. But yeah, you want or wonder about those ones. But yeah, in terms of what the experience that I've had from pet bun, it's all been positive. The stuffed up my credit card payment once or twice, but you know, that's not really a brand related thing. That's okay. But in terms of them, I mean from end to end, it's been good. The surgery did cost me about a thousand dollars to remove five teeth in my cat's face, but you know, that's again not their fault. It's giving a level of care in their vets. Fantastic and they're obviously franchise businesses that. But that's a different story to what we were talking about. To Pet Bun, but for us, if I had a dog, I'd be using the dog wash, I'd be using the poppy school. You know, why not? Kind of thing? Like I don't know where. You know, why do I need to go searching somewhere else unless they're not accessible? So it's not available in my ear, that's when I start looking. But if they're available, just that's what I'll be taking experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I think. Yeah, my m as I said before, I went in there when we look looking to get a fish, and then that wasn't because we didn't want it because we weren't happy with them. It was just that we decided not to get the fish. Look at the fighting fish depending. That's why we were going to get yes, they's small and they but then actually I felt bad for them. I was like they just by themselves. We can only be by the only I know, but was the killer Jo, I thought. Sad for the fighting fish anyway, on the existence we yeah, no, I thought. I what I've really enjoyed with doing the research on pet barn is just, you know, it's it looks like now I want to follow them on instagram because of their fun illustration, like...

I feel like they're you know, that's really warmed my heart now, and that's not to say that I, you know, like I wouldn't have probably followed them before because I don't have a pet, but, you know, I've got lots of people in my life who have pets and so it's Um, you know, I'm very familiar with the love of a pet. But I think it's interesting to see like just how how well they've done that, read that, refresh at the brand and it's really it's just really fun, like it's a really enjoyable brand to kind of look at now, and so I think, I think in that sense that from a visual perspective, I've I've been really impressed with yeah, it's quite an appropriate brand to be what it is. They not every brand conducing like what they've done. So that's it's just one of those things that, if you can do it right for the market that you have and for the product and the offering that you have, it makes sense. If it if this was applied to something that was, you know, the vet themselves, it might be a little bit less. Oh, yeah, completely all. What about? Yeah, but in terms of what they're offering, what they do, how they present themselves, it makes total sense to us at least. Yeah, absolutely cool. Well, that wraps us up for episode nine. We've any one more lets season. I'm more if you'd like to connect with us, as always, please follow us at branding banter on instagram and you can find both of our respective websites and social media accounts there, and you can also check out the show notes where we've got all that information as Franks at at the beginning. We would love any reviews on apple podcast or send us anything via the INSTAGRAM page. We really appreciate in it. We appreciate any feedback and obviously the reviews are really help get the podcast out to other people as well. So all right, well, yeah, thanks for listening for our bit of Banter about branding as always each week. Next week final episode, episode ten of season two, and we'll be shining our vanter a spotlight on blue. I don't know if you know blue. Blue is animated TV show on ABC kids here in Australia. It's in a whole head of other countries, in the US and in the UK, I believe, probably everywhere else. Rule of not traction it's got in the last two to three years is incredible. We really want to dive into that as a different kind of brand. It's not your typical consumer ish brand, but it's turning into one as the years go by in terms of community products in addition to their TV show. But it's a very, very Australian brand. Yeah, that we why I cover here and it has a lot of hallmotes that are very similar to a business. Interesting, so we're going to dive into that one done. It's really growing, growing exponentially as well when the last a last little bit of time. So thank you very much. We look forward to being with you next week for that chat, our final one of this season. I thank you frank thanks everyone for joinings. Very much for tuning in. We'll see you next episode.

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